The Moral Weight of Trust
When to Trust and When to Walk Away: Digital Ethics with Chris McClean
This week on Deep Pockets, I sat down with Chris McClean, Avanade’s Global Lead for Digital Ethics, to talk about something we all think we understand, but maybe we actually don’t: trust.
Chris has one of those résumés that makes you sit up straighter; marketing, risk management, corporate social responsibility, a master’s in business ethics, and now he is finalizing his PhD on the risks and benefits of trust. He spends his days making sure AI systems (and the people behind them) act responsibly.
When I asked him “Why should we trust you?” his answer was as humble as it was revealing. Trust, he said, isn’t something you can demand, it’s something others grant based on how you’ve behaved and the power you hold over their lives (much like brands, actually. Companies don’t own their brands, consumers do). So, by inviting him on my podcast, I’d already endorsed him, and in doing so, I might have made you more vulnerable. No pressure.
Trust, Power, and Vulnerability
Chris defines trust as this widespread force that prevails us in all aspects of our lives. Trust is a stance: believing someone will be a good steward of the power you’ve given them. That power could be as simple as house-sitting or as complex as running a government or managing an AI system that decides who gets a job.
Trust enables us to achieve things we can’t do alone but it also makes us vulnerable. And sometimes, it doesn’t just put us at risk; it can put others at risk if the person or system we’ve trusted misuses their power.
Why Distrust Might Be Healthy
We also talked about the Edelman Trust Barometer, which this year says we’ve moved from fear to polarization to grievance, a sense that most of us are being treated unfairly. Chris’s take? Declining trust isn’t automatically bad news. If those in power are acting irresponsibly, then distrust is not only natural, it’s necessary.
Instead of just asking “How do we rebuild trust?” Chris wants us to ask “Are the people and institutions we trust using their power responsibly? And if not, how do we hold them accountable?”
The Culture Behind Ethical AI
When we shifted to technology, Chris explained that digital ethics means making values-based decisions throughout a technology’s life from concept to retirement. AI makes this tricky because it evolves so fast.
You can’t automate responsibility, Chris says. You need a culture where people - designers, developers, decision-makers - understand the risks, benefits, and real-world impact of the systems they create and use.
Reasons to Stay Hopeful
Despite the risks, Chris is optimistic. Most technologists he meets want to do the right thing. The challenge is giving them the awareness and incentives to make ethical choices, even when deadlines are tight and market pressures loom.
By the end of our conversation, I realized trust isn’t a warm, fuzzy feeling. Instead, it’s a power relationship we need to examine constantly. Whether we’re dealing with governments, corporations, or algorithms, the same questions apply: Who has the power? How are they using it? And are we right to keep trusting them?
Listen to the episode on any podcast platform (also please subscribe, like and share - very grateful), or stream here:
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